jimknopf // Nov 8, 2008 at 3:29 pm
I would appreciate to play Senor CS with my band. You played the 12/8 rhythm (or do you call it 6/4?) a bit faster in Leverkusen than John did on Industrial Zen, and I totally fell in love with the way this rhythm carried the melodic flow over the changes (with a touch of samba in in the bass while staying in the non-samba rhythm, if I remember well).
John wrote Señor C.S. in 6/4 but, as you heard, the band took it through various interpretations of the basic rhythm. The keyboard solo tends to break down into 2 bars of 3/4 with a little Flamenco flavor. But, yes, the song is basically in 6.
Is it daring to ask if a lead sheet of this song is available anywhere? The other way is the usual way in our band: the (amateur) keyboarder has to to capture everything by listening again and again. ;-)I would readily pay for the material, since it would make my task easier and shorter in the always too limited time I have for making music besides my main job.
I suggest you write to John at his website for a lead sheet of the song. But it wouldn’t be a bad idea to transcribe it yourself - it’s great “ear training.”
And while asking, I could add a question concerning improvising over the changes. Of course I know you guys don’t play ’scales,’ but just make music, since you know all about scales inside out and have advanced ways of forming melodic lines while relating to harmonic content. Still it is of great help for someone like me to have an idea of possible scales/moods used for the changes, just to get some basic orientation. Be sure soon as I grasped that I will follow my ear and no scales. I just have to work harder to understand the basic outlines before doing so.
You answered your own question in a way. My cheap advice is to go right to the source of the song and the improvisation, in this case John’s recording of Señor C.S., and listen to the scales and melodies John uses to improvise with. That’s a good place to start. Of course, you can find quite easily what scales and notes go with what chords in many different books and you should look into this source of info. But the bottom line is deciding what scales, notes, phrases, etc. sound best to you. Just lots of trial and experimentation will get you there. There is no other way that I know of or would recommend.As far as transcribing music from recordings, I strongly advise you use this method to help develop your ability to recognize and “hear” and also write down the notes, phrases and rhythms. Everyone will start from different basic abilities to do this. But no matter where your ability is in this, it’s an essential ability to develop as a musician, so you can take it to the next level with practice and application.One example of what I mean:The first chord in Señor C.S. (where the main theme begins) I spell out as an Abm7. One scale that goes with that chord commonly would consist of - from low to high: Ab - Bb - Cb - Db - Eb - F - Gb. There are many different names for this scale - but that’s “a” scale, or one possible scale. But, the bottom line, as I said above, is to improvise a melody that You like - whether it uses the notes in this scale or not. There are no hard, fast rules to this game except “what sounds good to you.”
8 responses so far ↓
1 Flamenco Dancing Guitar and Cajon Spanish Music » Blog Archive » John wrote Señor CS in 6/4 but… // Nov 9, 2008 at 6:21 pm
[…] orratai wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptI would appreciate to play Senor CS with my band. You played the 12/8 rhythm (or do you call it 6/4?) a bit faster in Leverkusen than John did on Industrial Zen, and I totally fell in love with the way this rhythm carried the melodic … Read the rest of this great post here Posted in Uncategorized on November 9th, 2008 | […]
2 nishad // Nov 9, 2008 at 7:44 pm
Inspiring stuff! I’m absolutely in love with 6/4 at the moment, it’s got that Latin funky energetic yet laid back feel. I love how the rhythmical quality stands out in El Stephen on The Ultimate Adventure!
On a different note, I had a question - I play both keyboards/piano and guitar having played the former for longer including having had classical training. I ‘try’ to play jazz now (I love improvising) and I’m not sure whether I should carry on both as they are both demanding instruments especially because of the involvement of melody AND harmony as opposed to woodwind or brass instruments. Should I just focus on one or should I carry on playing both as I do love them. If I could I would love to learn every instrument on Earth!
3 walter // Nov 10, 2008 at 8:12 am
Hi Chick,
Thank you so much for your wonderful Notes From The Road! Reading your comments is almost, though not quite, like being there. I have a simple but provocative suggestion and request. I hope it is not too early to put a bug in your head for your U.S. tour. I will love any music you guys play. This is clear from the comments we are hearing from anyone who has seen the current tour. But, I believe in honor of RTF and the comeback of the fusion scene - that for old time’s sake you and John should put together a bit of nostalgia for the set list. I would like to hear a Return to Forever Piece and a Mahavishnu piece played together with a bridge between the two. Imagine Chick Corea playing Mahavishnu and John McLaughlin playing Return to Forever!? C’mon, what could be better than that? Continued good luck on the rest of the tour and I am looking forward to seeing you twice in the U.S. in the Spring!
4 Anant // Nov 10, 2008 at 9:58 am
Thank you so much for doing this, Chick. It’s a joy to read all this.
Let me echo Walter’s thoughts: Chick doing MO and John doing RTF! That would be for keeps.
If that does happen, I hope there’s a DVD somewhere….
5 jimknopf // Nov 10, 2008 at 11:08 am
Dear Chick Corea,
your detailed answer was a very pleasant surprise, and it is really encouraging for me: thanks a lot! I already have accepted the challenge of digging deeper into that song. :-)
A hint to an Italian transcription has helped me, but I will only take it as a time gain and not as a substitute for extended own relistening and rehearsing. I’d like to get to my own “flying through 6/4” feeling now, no matter how much energy will be required! My last project was to transcribe Wayne Shorter’s “Palladium” for my band. That required a bit of effort from my limited skills. In the end it was considerable fun to be able to compare a Hal Leonhard edition, which I hadn’t know before (Best of Weather Report), after transcribing, and find some heavy faults – in the other one… ;-)
With your hint never to look for an alternative to a personal approach, on whatever technic-al level someone plays, you hit the nail. I can agree so much, because I’m in the eraly fifties, dare to play at least as intense (or more) as when I was seventeen or in my twenties (I know it’s against the role rules), and belong to the autodidact generation where technical skills were reached *after* playing a lot in bands, and not in all these wonderful jazz and rock schools giving a good start to todays children and youth.
One last thing: if I should stumble on a really interesting musical puzzle in this or other comparable songs from you and others, would you accept another question? Be assured, I will only make rare use of such an option and don’t belong to the kind of fans harassing their idols.
6 Ahl // Nov 10, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Hello Chick
I noticed your post offering “cheap advice” to questions that one may send your way, and I couldn’t help but to give this a shot, so here it goes!
I’ve been studying the three tonic scale since a couple of weeks back and even though I know the harmonization and where to apply it through a theoretical point of view, I’m having a bit trouble applying it in my improvising over jazz songs.
I find that the problem lies in that the scale has such a distinct sound (as all symmetrical scales I believe) that the use of it becomes to create an atmosphere rather than to create a melodic idea. In using it I sometimes find that some of the “off-notes” create some sort of chromatic leading note function.
So my question to you, Mr Corea, is: where do you apply this scale? which type of chord do you think suits it best and do you approach the “off-notes” as chromatic leading notes?
Thanks a lot Chick for any not at all cheap advice!
Kind regards from Sweden/Eric Ahl
7 fhanshar // Nov 10, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Hi Chick,
Love your blog. You have made it a great medium to communicate with the fans, something that would be almost impossible in the past. I wish more musicians would follow!
Frank
8 Poliotas // Nov 14, 2008 at 4:21 am
Thank You for a wonderfool wonderfool wonderfool evening in Vilnius ! Great, dynamic, inspiring music, great inspiring musicians, great guys ! It’s always a big party for me to see You live, every time in different set’s, and as always i brought some new joung friends to enjoy this , best level of music ! I’m glad would be hear this same project 5 or 10 more times again. Will be looking forward to Your future shows near my town. Best ! Daumantas
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